In a report from Military.com, The U.S. government has just banned the Army from using one of the most reliable and commonly used commercial-made magazines on the market. Despite the fact that many soldiers have complained about the performance of the government issued M4 Magazines, The Army is ordering all troops to stop using the superior polymer magazines and is telling them to only use government-issued magazines with their M4 carbines.
The banned magazines, most coming from Magpul Industries Corp, is one of the most popular add-on accessories in the battlefield and is credited for significantly improving the performance of the M4. Despite the popularity and reliability of the Magazine, Army officials from the TACOM Life Cycle Management Command placed the PMAG and all other polymer magazines on an unauthorized gear list.
The Army must now use the government issued aluminum magazines that are notorious for double feeds and rounds not feeding correctly in the battlefield. In the governments own field tests these aluminum magazines finished dead last in performance. In fact, the “dust test” showed that 27 percent of the M4’s stoppages were magazine related.
The move has a number of soldiers mystified as to why they would be asked to use an inferior product, especially when you consider the PMAG is used by a large amount of special forces and Marine infantry. It was also available through the Army supply system and was even issued to a number of units before this order came down.
It makes you wonder what congressman or government bureaucrat is getting a kickback from the original manufacturer. My guess, is we will soon see this same crappy manufacturer win a new no-bid contract for the new line of M4 Mags. It’s really sickening when this government puts money above the safety of our troops.
Because they are full of shit and someone somewhere is getting paid to push them old banged up mags, PMAGs are badass and stand up to use and dusty environment of Afgh, I kept two on the rifle and backed up with the standard issue mags, Soldiers and Marines will still keep them, in the heat of battle some dumbass COl back stateside isnt checking your gear
PMAGS are Better than any issued mag. But if you are looking for a reliable and actual (BADASS) magazine your only option in H&K.
As a former Marine from the Vietnam era I am confused by your comment, do you mean an H&K weapon or magazine. Is there a H&K mag for the M4?
This is BS, i have been using MAGPUL P-Mags for years, and there has been NO ALARAC message that i am aware of that bans the MAGPUL P-Mag. Additionally it even has a •NSN: MAG211-BLK MAGAZINE, CARTRIDGE 1005-01-576-5159
TACOM issued a “safety of use message” this month….. As of now it effects ARMY only. According to TACOM Having an NSM does not mean it has been authorized by the Army.
Pretty sure this has something to do with the “downsizing” in an attempt to develop a more disciplined military force (uniformity). Look, Pmags work better than Army issue, you want the mission accomplished? LET US USE WHAT WE NEED TO WIN THE FIGHT.
This is not that big of deal. 1st off no one is checking. 2nd off pmags are solid but not the best. Pmags get hung up when conducting speed reloads and the shape of the mag makes it difficult to conduct tac reloads. If the weather gets cold enough (like the mountains of afghanistan) the mags can freeze and when you bump them hard or drop them they will crack. I don’t like being told what gear to use as much as the next guy nut I prefer other mags and like I said no one has been checking me. Additionally the new mags that are being issued have an improved follower and are much more reliable than the old ones. When my life is on the line I want H & K mags.
As an NCO I feel obligated to refuse this order. I will NOT tell any of my Soldiers they cant use equipment that works better than the garbage they are issued. I myself have had Pmags for years with no issues. If need be I can have my guys put an issue mag in their weapon till we leave the wire, but once out of sight of dumb ass officers I will let them use whatever mags they want. Besides, the first officer that tells me I can’t use something in the middle of a firefight is getting two rounds in the face.
I know officers and NCO’s have been fragged in past and present conflicts. Most of the time, however, the soldiers involved never owned up to it in front of witnesses.
Conversely, I’ve found Colt mags to be flawless, and every Pee Mag I’ve handled has been crap.
Could be a bad run. Every time I’ve mentioned it on a forum, I’ve been called names and the thread deleted.
Could be politics, could be tests, could be any number of things.
ive always had some sort of after market mag in my racks since i can remember but recently I’ve had the same issue. When we were set to deploy our unit refused to buy pmags for us so i talked to a few local gun shop and bought 300 of them at price for people from my company to buy off of me. Within the first day on the range we had more than 30 of the 300 (10%) of the MagPul pmags with either split ass ends or the feeder lips cracked off. Since then I have been using Lancer L5 mags and although they cost about 2 dollars more a mag they are a far more superior product than any pmag I have used, gen2 or gen3. I’ve never had a jam, never had a double feed, never a cracked back or lip break off. they are just a far better product.
Navy here, but recently worked in an Army billet. We were given the old mags with the green followers. I didn’t notice a huge problem with most of the standard issue mags other than the occasional misfeed or difficulty seating the magazine when it was dusty. Only some of us chose to use the pmags. The difference was noticeable. Easier to seat and fewer stoppages… All things that can help people get home at the end of the day. I personally see no reason for big Army to step in and dictate what mags we should be using, particularly when the ones issued are subpar.
It sounds like I may be the only one on this post but I have had nothing but bad luck with polymer mags in cold weather and will never buy another magpul mag. They function and feed great in warm weather but I have snapped the magazine “retainers” a few times and that was enough for me. To be fair it was -5 F or less each time but I live in MN and that is not uncommon at all to get that cold in the winter so I will stick with cold hard metal.
Unless you are purposely attempting to slam your pmags on the ground in that temp, they will not break from a normal drop on the ground. The tin can mags that the army issues have much more faults than the pmag. First of all, if a tin can mag gets bent on either side the spring will not push the follower and you will have a failure to feed. durability on both mags isnt what most people are complaining about. Generally its the followers and the worn out spring of these old reused company issued mags and any dent and ding can prevent the follower from pushing rounds up.
I’ve found them to suck whatever the weather. They sure look pretty and tacticool, though.
Guess the us military and US government sees too many GI’s are coming home to collect military benefits. Served OEF with government garbage and was I reminded everyday that my gear was made by the lowest bidder. Constantly taking mags apart and having to maintain them. We were not just asked to do it but ordered to. Constant jams wih the m4, m9 and lets not even get into the issues with the Mk 19 and the weapon mounts and misdeeds, all been fixed from what I hear, Wish we had the gear a lot of soldiers have now. You go with what the guys in the field are using not what some pencil pusher in the office tells you.
This type of thing really pisses me off. I hope the Army will reverse their decision before too many of our soldier’s lives are lost from failing mags.
Always great to read the post of a bunch of “wannabees”. Seems there is huge shooting war going on somewhere that the rest of us don’t know about. Iraq is all but “done” and only about 1 in 300 Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan will fire their weapon at the enemy. Not many opportunities for well maintained, government issued weapon components to fail. In fact I’m not sure anyone has gone on the record stating any serviceman has been killed due to a M4/M9 malfunction during a firefight. There is no conspiracy to deprive Soldiers, Sailors or Airmen from the ability to defend themselves. However, we do have rules and orders which are in place to prevent PX-Rangers from substituting well tested hardware with products which may or may not fail to meet very detailed requirements. While perhaps not the absolute best choice for your particular application, the magazines provided (most of which are new out of the package for front-line units)…. Work well, are readily available, and interchangeable with other weapons such as the SAW. PCM/PCI Combat checks by leaders are essential. I pray that none of your Soldiers are killed or injured because they have the “wrong” stuff. Obviously they already have a poor leader who chooses not to enforce the Army’s standards… let’s not compound the problem.
Well tested hardware? Your own Army tests show that the government issued mags finished dead last in performance. How is that not putting lives at risk?
And arguing that they’re not shooting as much anymore so it’s ok to give them crap for gear is about the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard.
Well tested Hardware? PX-Rangers?Firing a SAW with M-16 series magazines? Wannabees?
Wow. First of all, thank you for the insults. You’d never know I was on my third deployment since 2002 from your post. There may only be 1 out of 300 soldiers who engage the enemy, but for those of us who roll out the gates several times a week exposing ourselves that is hardly any comfort. Neither is knowing we can use our USGI magazines in a M249 considering in 10 years of military service I have never seen a M249 fire correctly with this feed mechanism and have always been told it was a last ditch desperate measure, after one has looked for and failed to find rifles on the ground. The USGI magfazines have been very well tested, the problem is the test results were ignored. And I want to know where you found new magazines, we certainly weren’t issued new magazines. I have USGI magazines with several different color followers. They are obviously old and unservicable, I immediately ordered PMags and haven’t looked back. As for not a shooting war, now I know you’re either a fobbit, or not recently deployed at all. One only has to look at the SIGACTS to see that. PMAGS might not be the best, but they don’t have to be in order to be better than what I was issued. Remember these are the same kind of people who stuck us with the widow maker that is the IOTV. (Body Armor made to fall apart)
Whoa there ‘sir’
Wannabes? Px rangers. If and when we (11b) ever get to a px down range all of the brass an pog boot turds have already bought the whole store. 1-300 get into contact because there are about 250 Fat POGs to every grunt. Why wouldn’t we outfit out men, or at least give them the opportunity to outfit themselves, with tools that aren’t produces by the lowest bidder. For god sakes it’s bad enough out pts area due by convicts who don’t give a shit. But our contract with skillcraft? I mean it’s good to give handicapped people jobs but it just shows if we let the blind lead the blind when it comes to our supplies. We’re clearly letting the dumb lead when it comes to choosing equipment that can save a few lives.
That’s super duper awesome, “COL”. Same rank on the chest of the fellow who propogated a 10 page PowerPoint slide show that somehow made a piece of issue gear even worse. Yep, it was a real thing of beauty. Somehow this HRR (High Rank Retard) managed to take an LBE and magically take the weight of the kit on the vest from the shoulders onto the neck.
Not a big deal if you are a HRR COL with an m9 and a dirty m4 with empty mags. Kind of annoying when carrying the load for a SAW for hours on end on an actual patrol, however. God, I wish that idiot was in front of me right now just so I could kick him in his ring-knocker balls.
Once again, we see how much better it is how things look than how they are. If you still so passionately believe that issue gear is so awesome…
Well, if that idiocy is so true, than may I suggest that there would be no market fo aftermarket gear. Also, can I interest you in a time share on the gilt coast? Or maybe actually use the weapons and equipment once in a while? I garuntee I can get you to change your mind if you had to carry the shitty, heavy issue garbage you love so much.
Finally. these are not plastic GI joe toys for you to play with. If I stuck to using crappy Army “bugeye” eyepro instead of my Sawfly Revision eyepro I would be blind. Or dead. At least I would have a pretty corpse. Minus the shattered eye socket from IED shrapnel. Or a snapped neck from carrying 100 pounds of gear to fulfill my combined SAW gunner/medic/infantry team leader right before I was blown up.
Hey ArmyCol- go kill yourself. You ARE the pejorative “big army” that disgusts people with your lack of common sense and blind endorsement of pencil pushing regs. Anyone who is issued live ammo should be issued a reliable feeding device, regardless of the mathematical probability of them needing to fire it in anger. If the possibility wasn’t very real, we wouldn’t be getting issued live ammo.
Regarding specialized units and what they use: I haven’t noticed any Aluminum USGI mags on any M4’s from about 2005 to present. I guess potus’s security detail and USMC units rate H&K mags and p-mags, but big army doesn’t.
But you may earn yourself a star yet by continuing to champion politically motivated garbage policy. A fine obama general in the making. Kill yourself.
USMC CAPT… As an army NCO I want to say thank you for your open mind and ability to comprehend common fucking sense. This ‘Bird’ has almost definitely never been outside the wire and definitely cares more about getting rid of soldiers with tattoos than getting rid of over weight paper pushers. I’m sick of army beuracracy and close minded “this is how it’s always been” attitudes. Again thank you and I hope that any other people of political ranks, I.e, full birds. Realize there is more to the army than Starbucks in the pentagon.
Why are there always a few people that have to outright lie about a product?
Iman Azol…
How is it every test and experience online shows pmags as being stronger and less prone to damage than the aluminum mags, yet you bad mouth them and say all the ones youve used where crap? You are either lying or subjecting them to abuse above what they were designed to take (which by the way also destroy the aluminum mags).
Having deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan I can say that the Pmag and the HK 416 mags worked great. The issued mags for the the M4 and M9 were junk. We replaced ours with Pmags and some HK mags. The M9s we had to order through Wolf and replace the followers and springs before they would work reliably. Our team was embedded with the Afghans and in pretty remote areas. ArmyCOL, You must stay safe at a FOB because we were in firefights all the time. Maybe you need to focus on the chow at BK or what night is dance lessons and not what really happens outside the wire.
ArmyCOL, I agree. Go kill yourself, or better yet, you go on the next convoy with your SAW and your tin magazine in the baglan valley, and let me know how that turned out. What a jackass.
USMC Capt hit the nail on the head. And you wonder why everyone thinks the army sucks, well there’s a prime example of the leadership differences right there. We have pencil pushing politicians who could give two shits about anything other than their next OER, and obviously the marine cares about killing the enemy, and his marines getting back in one piece.
Just went to the PX in Camp Bastion/Leatherneck. Couldn’t find p-Mags. I am so frustrated. I am a non-American soldier deployed in Afghanistan from a country that uses the M4. On one critical occasion, I had a double feed failure with my M4, caused by our the faulty standard issue mag.
I agree that ArmyCol needs a lesson in diplomacy. The tinge of truth is that there is no problem with the US GI mag. The mag design came out of the Vietnam era, and was supposed to have a limited life span. The lessons learned from the battlefield said most grunts in the war did not hold onto their mags in a firefight, so the army wanted a mag that was cheap to produce and replace. Enter the peace time army that re-issues equipment due to monetary constraints. This mentality permeated to the present day and most guys have the same tin “training mags” from supply. Poorly maintained and damaged mags account for 50% of all stoppages in testing. In my unit, if a mag is found to be defective in any way, we stomp on it to prevent re-issue.
Why all the hate over a mag. The Col. is correct. A pmag may be a great civilian item, but it is not a GI, and cannot and should not be introduced in the field. Despite all the rancor, of the thousands of mags I had used over my time in service, only a few have ever failed to feed, and those were usually due to mud or vegetation. Honestly, We had more trouble with crap being shoved into the mag well during mag changes than there were feed issues with the mags themselves. I treated my mags as I treated my weapon. with care. I never had my rifle run over, I never threw it on the ground, or abused it outside of it’s intended design. So I never subjected my mags to that treatment either. I would suggest that if you are not active military, and like one system or product over the other at the range, you should use it and enjoy. If you are in uniform, be a soldier, use the gear you trained on, and maintain it like you were instructed.
Colorado radically tightens gun laws, including any sales of the 100% of the magazines that Magpul makes (in their Colorado facility). Even the act of handing an empty high capacity mag to another person is a crime now. So Magpul announces they are leaving Colorado and moving their operations to Texas – at which point, the Army miraculously declares Magpul magazines off limits.
So upsetting the liberal lunatic leadership is met with apparent punitive measures; must be a coincidence………
I am retired Air Force, having served from Vietnam until the late 90s. While I cannot speak of the current fight, I know from my own experience working with the Army in the tactical arena in tropical, temperate, Arctic, and desert conditions, those stamped aluminum magazines for M16s and AR-15s were not that great and were subject to misfires and jamming, irrespective of conditions and how well the weapon was maintained. The same held true with the earlier M9s too (while the old 45s seemed to work well anywhere). Fortunately, if one knew where to look and could afford “unofficial stock,” one could find replacement magazines that worked better. While I understand where ArmyCol is coming from, it is the troops in the field that understand how equipment works. Also, the truly excellent field leaders will too and will help their folks survive. If the pmag works, then use them. This is better than counting body bags and explaining failed missions.
Having served in both Iraq and Afghanistan, I must agree the “Colonel” should go take a leisurely stroll outside the wire with the crappy hand me down mags that are issued to our men. I personally wasn’t fond of pmags(failure to feed on 3 separate mags in the 1 in 300 firefight) I received a package from my fiancée at the time (now wife) that had 30 troy industry mags in it and haven’t looked back since..most reliable mag I’ve ever had, never a problem at all in the heavy use of my personal AR15 and the one I am currently carrying when on patrol for Eric Frein here in the Pocono mountains in PA (I’m a state trooper now)