POLICE STATE: Man Investigated for Buying Ammunition

In American you are supposed to have the right to go about your business without the government looking into your every action.

The 4th Amendment Reads:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Guns and AmmoThese days, more and more Americans are finding themselves subject to investigation by law enforcement agencies, for actions that in no way resemble any sort of crime. Some are even being locked up for speaking out!

Where does it stop, and are you next?

Man Investigated Over Ammunition Purchase

Brian Loftus, a commercial fisherman and Oathkeeper, went to a local gun store to purchase a few boxes of ammunition for the range. Later that evening he got a phone call from the State Police. They wanted to talk to him because of his “large purchase amount of ammunition.”

Loftus, told the State Police that he had no criminal record and no reason to be suspected of anything. The police responded by telling him that they “know his record was clean”, because they had already pulled it and checked him out prior to the call.

I guess they forgot about that pesky 4th Amendment.

126 Comments

  1. How exactly were his 4th amendment rights infringed? He wasn’t searched, nothing was seized, and no warrants were issued. A large amount of ammunition bought suddenly *IS* probable cause in a world where you have lunatics shooting up movie theaters. If anything, kudos to the police force. Look at this guy – I’d be suspicious of him, too. He looks like he’d enjoy shooting brown people for sport.

        • You should know profiling is wrong. That man is an honest working american and very clearly stated it. I understand there are lunatics in the world, but what you said about that man was a poor excuse for being well mannered and over all asinine. John i agree with the other two in saying im worried about people like you in this world. Maybe you should snap into a slim jim and think about your mindset.

          • This isn’t profiling. Profiling is TSA doing a search on an individual because they are wearing a turban, or an Arizona sheriff pulling over a person and asking them for their immigration paperwork because they look mexican.

            The police didn’t call this guy because of the way he looks, they called him because he purchased a large amount of ammo. They didn’t arrest him, they didn’t bring him in for questioning, they just made a phone call. The police can call and ask anyone questions, that is not a violation of anyone’s rights unless they are placed under arrest or there is a search. If a cop asks you a question you don’t want to answer, you don’t have to answer.

            And I’m sorry, but at some point making large ammo purchases is probable cause. I would be interested to find out just how much this guy purchased, which is conveniently omitted from the story.

            For that matter….this whole story smells funny. How did the police even find out about the purchase? Did the gun shop report him? It feels like there is more going on here than is being reported (surprise…)

          • If a large amount of ammunition is grounds for a phone call….my phone should be ringing off the hook. LOL

            As a former police officer I can’t for the life of me understand this phone call. No laws were broken. I would be real concerned over the running of a Triple I on a guy for suspicion. That is something that is very well restricted in law enforcement.

          • Megakarl is an idiot. According to him, profiling white Christians is not profiling. The report doesn’t say a large amount of ammo. It only says a few boxes. Statistically speaking, mass shootings are way down when you look at the numbers. There have been a few recently that were all over the media until it was found out that the bad guy was a left-wing nut job. Then the media went silent in every case.

            Since when is doing something that everyone agrees is completely legal grounds to have your personal history searched and then be visited by the state police? Since when do police pursue people before they break any laws?

            I can tell you that the state police are not the only ones watching these purchases, and they did not start looking recently. Every ammo purchase using a credit card in this country is scrutinized by the BATF. If the ATF wants you harassed for a purchase and the state police refuse to do their bidding, the ATF will go after you themselves.
            This is all done with one purpose in mind. They feel free to try and suppress legal activity their bosses don’t like.
            Morons like Megakarl would rather protect actual criminals and then blame their victims for causing the criminals to commit crimes.

          • Profiling can be done in other ways besides race. And it said at least two times that he purchased a couple of cases. Which gives you a good idea on how much. And no purchacing that much is not considered probable cause. And the most important thing you said that was wrong is that the police didnt call him for that, they were told too by a man working for a government company that at that amount of ammo should have just left himself out of the victims buisness. Get your facts right.

          • “A couple cases” doesn’t denote anything. At all. It is not an accurate representation of quantity and is more likely an effort to downplay how much ammo he bought. Which is why I said I’d like to know exactly how much he actually bought.

            Profiling in the context of this argument is based on appearance. If ALL profiling is wrong, how can any crime be prevented? Racial profiling and profiling based solely on appearance is wrong. Profiling based on a series of actions, public discourse, threats etc is not wrong and is in fact necessary.

            I didn’t say profiling white christians wasn’t wrong. I gave two examples and you drew your own close-minded conclusion. That said, it’s uncommon to profile a white person in the US because there’s a lot of us, and it’s virtually impossible to tell someone is a christian by looking at them. If a white person goes to mexico, the middle east or the bad parts of some of america’s larger cities and is targeted because of their race, then yes that’s absolutely wrong. It just doesn’t happen nearly as much and no one is trying to pass laws saying it’s ok to do.

            I don’t have any clue where you can possibly deduce that the recent mass shootings were committed by left-wing nut jobs. Delete your nutbar NRA chain emails and pick up a book. The guy in Wisconsin that carried out the sikh temple shootings was a neo-nazi skinhead….you don’t get any further right than that, and the aurora colorado shooter didn’t really make any political affiliations. He was just plain crazy. Or maybe that’s just the media and reality having a clear liberal bias.

            Police are very active in preventing crime. Always have been. It’s getting even better with predictive analytics. Waiting for crime to occur is an unacceptable strategy any more than the fire service shouldn’t do anything to prevent fire, just wait till one lights off and kills a bunch of people before they respond. Beyond that, this wasn’t pursuit. It was a phone call.

            “And the most important thing you said that was wrong is that the police didnt call him for that, they were told too by a man working for a government company that at that amount of ammo should have just left himself out of the victims buisness. Get your facts right.” – learn to form a coherent sentence. I am not really sure what you’re trying to say here.

            “Morons like Megakarl would rather protect actual criminals and then blame their victims for causing the criminals to commit crimes.” – No basis for that. If you’re ammo purchase isn’t wrong, then you have nothing to hide. The phone call is no big deal, other than you should probably ask your gun dealer why he reported your purchase. Potential criminals that purchase large quantities of ammo will get the phone call too, and that’s the point. And this guy buying a crapload of ammo isn’t likely to prevent much crime.

    • Buying a large amount IS probable cause? LOL Just limit (by LAW) the amounts one can buy, until then its fine. No limits on buying large amounts of booze; probable cause to drink and drive. The list can be endless.

      Being questioned for doing NOTHING WRONG/ILLEGAL isn’t a problem???
      Like the other responder, I’m concerned about people like you. You sir, don’t deserve your freedoms.

      • If the guy was crazy and planning to do something, a phone call asking him would not work, the crazy guys would just lie, this is BS! We are a free country and fear mongers use and possibly create horror stories to take away more of our freedoms. If our lame government would stop spending money on other countries, bribes and BS, we could help the mentally ill… The country has slipped into “pre marshall law” and I for one have armed myself. They take half of our earnings and give it to themselves or friends…We must bring down the big banks, global corporations and greedy, self serving elite and take back our country

      • Guys,
        I think I had better get a disguise as I need 5 gallons of gas for my lawnmower. I also need 5 gallons of hightest for my airboat. I need a bunch of emergency flares. I need some paint thinner from the Home Depot and some propane and lighter fluid for the barbeque. I hope John Titor doesn’t live near me as he may think I am planning something nefarious with all the accelerants under the guise of cutting the lawn, going for an airboat ride with flares for an emergency, doing a little touch-up painting, and throwing a steak on the barby.
        Please John, don’t turn me in.

        • Amen.People need to mind their business.If I was in that movie theatre that night with my carry gun less people would’ve been killed and the ones who survived would be thanking me.Theres two sides to every fence.Dont tread on me.

    • Idiot, you will deserve everything that will happen to you in the future from our federal government. Problem is the rest of us won’t deserve it. It is sheeple and kool-aid drinkers like you that have allowed our government to get out of control due to your idiocy and lack of really caring about the situation. Go back to sleep for as soon as they are through dealing with us freedom lovers they will be there to take care of you.

    • I buy ammo 500 rounds at a time. Does this mean I’m gonna go on a mass shooting? No, it means I like to save money.

      Ever hear the phrase “buy in bulk and save”?

    • John Titor:
      It’s sheeple like you that are allowing this country to fall deeper and deeper into a police state. Please educate yourself and wake up!

      • I agree, This is very troubling, Just another way for the Libertards to take away our freedoms. And as for John Titor’s remark, You need to wake up, Your kind are dangerous to our country, You wooly headed Left Wing Libatard!

    • Last time I checked, if your not registered as a threat than you are free to buy ammunition whenever you want to. John Titor your a moron if you don’t think something is fishy with the police getting into that guy’s business.

    • His 4th Amendment was violated by having his purchase monitored by police without a warrant and you are a bigot to suspect him of anything based on his appearance.

    • John and MegaKarl: you two people are part of the problem here? people like you have allowed our govt. to spiral into a very dangerous place where secret police make calls, or late night visits to a person to “ask questions” about an activity which is perfectly legal and there is no proof he violated any laws, or even thought about doing so? “a few boxes of ammo for the range” which is what the article says, is NOT a reason to worry about anyone, least of all a man with a perfect criminal history, (as stated by the police) something bad is affot here and its not legal, nor is it right!

    • Well, Mr. Titor, what a wonderfully tolerant person you seem to be. Exactly what characteristics does one have to posess for you to conclude that they would like to shoot brown people for sport? I’ll bet this man has more brown friends than you do. Watch MSNBC much? Not many brown folks there either (aside from the mega-clown Sharpton, whom no brown person would want speaking for them). Would you like a world where we decided what people should be questioned, based on what they look like, or talk like? And, no, perhaps his 4th amendment rights were not infringed, but he also had a perfect right to tell them that he didn’t have to explain his “large” purchase to them over the phone either. I wouldn’t. Just because someone calls me up and says they’re police, doesn’t obligate me to answer their questions. And don’t give me any of that “if you don’t have anything to hide” crap either. The Jews probably didn’t think they had anything to hide prior to 1933 either.

    • I’m more concerned with Homeland Security purchasing a billion rounds of hollow point ammo, and training Russian soldiers in America, and the signing of NDAA, and the fires of Civil Unrest, and Racial Division being stoked, and the opening of FEMA Camps, and the soon Declaration of Martial Law, than I am of a citizen preparing to defend himself against any enemy foriegn or domestic…you can always spot the racist in a crowd…he is the only one that notices race…

    • John,
      It is obvious that you neither understand nore apreciate the freedom we have all been endowed. 1st of all when any search has been conducted, background check in this case,without permission, warrent, or cause, it is a violation of the 4th Ammendment.
      Secondly, the Second Ammendment guarentees the right to buy and posess ammo and weapons and does not offer probable cause. This man’s background check, admitted by police, was clean. Again, what probable cause? By the way, how do you buy ammo slowly?
      Lastly, to your “brown people” comment, you knew this would draw some attention. As a matter of fact, your entire note was a vehicle to deliver your hate filled prejudice upon whitey. You don’t really care about the subject at hand. You just couldn’t help but sieze the opportunity when saw it. Take it elsewhere.

    • John, one could argue that there was an illegal search. When they made the phone call and questioned him they were “Searching” his mind. And it was done with cause or consent.

      It think it is more probable that you are a troll for the criminal element that hides behind the shield.

      And further more, a few boxes of ammo is not a large purchase. 1.4 Billion rounds that the DHS bought is a large purchase.

    • They violated his 4th amendment by asking him questions, in their official capacity, without informing him of his right to remain silent,fishing to get this guy to hook himself.He should file a title 42 civil lawsuit and a title 18 criminal,if he has the identity of the public servants involved.

    • First Medicare doctor appointment 9/4/2012
      Do you have any medical problems ? no
      Do you take any medical prescriptions ? no
      Do you feel depressed ? no
      Do you own any firearms ? Of course I said no
      Our government controlled health care at work !

      • why is it anyones business if you own a gun? or how much ammo you buy? we are allowed to protect our homes and property by use of deadly force if neccesary. it is the law in the state where I live. seems now to keep the government out of our personal business we must buy guns and ammo from private individuals and use cash to do so. I dont believe its anyones business how much ammo you buy. I myself am a firm believer in our right to bear arms without this right how do we protect ourselves from all threats foreign and domestic? and to judge a man on how he looks is wrong on so many levels. John who made you the one to decide if someone looks suspicious? People like you John are exactly whats wrong with this country now. sheeple like you have given away our rights and liberty under the guise it will make us safer. what an Idiot

    • John, Wow, you can tell a person is a racist by just looking at him. Thank God you are not in a position to act on your self-righteous inclinations

    • @ John Titor,

      “He looks like he’d enjoy shooting brown people for sport.”

      So what do you look for when identifying a racist murderer?

      I’d say the pic above is pretty damn close to what I would imagine in a commercial fishermen.

      So john, you say he looks like someone who likes shooting brown people? Just what do you look for when sniffing out a racist murderer?

      I’m not sure what traights your judging by, but I’d say the first thing to look for is someone who judges a person by appearance, someone who quips, Oh my God, he doeasn’t look like me and he owns a GUN! He must like shooting people who don’t look like me!

      You sir, are the racist I worry about!

    • Listen to your self! “looks like”? Racist bastard. Suddenly someone looks bad and they should be investigated? Now he will be watched for nothing. It’s only a matter of time before the search becomes a reality.

    • If he had a phone call, he should simply have said “I have no statements to make to you.” and hung up the phone.
      Nothwithstanding, pigs have no business even asking what he was doing. he broke no laws.

      Also, John, who are you to say that this guy looks like he’d enjoy shooting brown people? Ridiculous comment.

      you are a brainwashed, gutless police statist. Enjoy your stay in a FEMA camp.

    • Once they checked his background and it was clean end of story. We are moving towards a Police Like state. Eye see it happening more often in the last few years!

    • How predictable that you are playing the race card against an honest, taxpaing, patriot. Yes, indeed you are an ignorant person for even suggesting that citizens should now all be suspects for executing their free rights. Perhaps the police should be looking at you?

    • Ben Franklin said,”Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety”. We are giving up our freedoms way to easily. I want my grandchildren to have the same freedoms I have enjoyed but people like you are willing to give them up. So sad

    • wow did you really just say that? im guessing your some kind of racist.or else you want to be with ignorant statements like that.there are many people in this world whom im going to guess dont fit you thought of normal looking witch pretty much makes you an asshole. yea it might have been good for the cops to call this guy but digging in his passed first is kinda wrong,hey atleast they were paying attention this time maybe they might get the nut before he shoots someone with this kind of reaction.as for john, get a clue bud life is to short to be that stupid.

    • O MY GOD!!! YOUR RIGHT JOHN I CAN TELL BY HIS ACCENT THAT WOULD LOVE TO KILL BLACK ,BROWN AND EVEN AFEW PURPLE PEOPLE HOLLY HELL RUN EVERYONE!!!!! ARE YOU REALLY THAT MUCH OF AN IDIOT? A FEW BOXES, HELL IVE SHOT THAT MUCH ON SATURDAY, AND NOT AT ANYONE.OK SO NO1. THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO EVEN CHECK HIS BACK GROUND NO.2 THEY HAD NO RIGHT TO CALL HIM.NO3 THEY INVADED HIS PRIVACY SHALL I GO ON OR CAN YOU FINNALLY SEE WERE THIS IS GOING. YOU MIGHT WANT TO BRING YOUR NOSE OT OF THE CLOUDS AN ACTUALLY LOOK AT PEOPLE WITH YOU HEART AND NOT YOUR EYES. JUDGEMENTAL PEOPLE HARDLY EVER HAVE A FULL HAPPY LIFE SO FIND OUT WHAT YOUR NOT HAPPY ABOUT AND WORK ON THAT AND LEAVE THE REST OF US ALONE

    • Now John, how can you tell by looking at him what color people he would enjoy shooting? I mean really? He could be into shooting blue Surf’s for all we know.
      Besides he looks like two of my cousins and half of my neighbors. And I’m sure their mom’s love them too.

    • How exactly were his 4th amendment rights violated?” Do you recall reading in the article that a background check was run on Mr. Loftus BEFORE the phone call? Do you recall a term called “Probable Cause”? Buying ammo, in any quantity, is not probable cause, nor is it illegal. You go on to judge the guy because of his looks. My money says you are one of those people who are constantly on the hook (phone)with the Homies as part, See something, say something.

    • You are and idiot. His 4th amendment rights WERE violated because he was searched prior to the phone call. There was NO reason for the police to search his record on a tip from someone else. And how can you say buying ammunition to use at a gun range is probable cause? If more people carried guns believe it or not crime would go down because lawful citizens would not be prayed apon by criminals because the criminals wouldn’t have soft targets to hit. Criminals would think twice about raping, murdering, or robbing others if they feared for their own lives.

    • As a former law enforcement officer, I ASSURE you buying any amount of ammo is NOT probable cause of anything. Besides that, a couple of boxes (probably 50 x 2 = 100 rounds) is not a large amount of ammo. You should get a law reference manual and look up what amounts to probable cause. Oh, and while you’re at it find some liberal site to share your warped views.

    • How exactly are you ignoring the 4th amendment? Sorry but you CIA bots and your pro police state semantic arguments fail when anyone can read read the constitution.

  2. I agree with John. Off Grid Survival usually has stories I love to read. If the police were not acting snippy or uppity to Mr. Loftus, then there is no reason to be too upset. With the recent shoot-ups, and people acting insane, there is reason to look into large purchases of ammo at one time. Or into people buying different amounts of ammo from different places, for that matter. Ammo doesn’t just take down big game, you know, and I’m pretty happy that people are looking out for each other. Maybe you disagree, but I don’t exactly mind what the police did here.

    • What constitutes a large purchase? this was a search of his background, imagine getting your credit pulled without applying? same concept.

      • That happens a lot. Those pre-approved credit cards you get in the mail? They come because the banks do a silent credit check. They don’t show up on your credit report because you didn’t request them, but the banks maintain those records so they are free to look at them. Much like the police maintain your criminal history and they can look at those when needed too.

          • Excellent contribution to the debate. You didn’t even bother to try and regurgitate some bullcrap political rhetoric, you just debased yourself to insults. Heaven forbid someone has a different opinion from yours.

    • See Below. Do you think its OK if a stranger comes to check on your underwear purchase? Unless they are a nut, or are making threats or acting weird, that’s a nunya…

      • My underwear doesn’t have the potential to end someone’s life. Guns are a big responsibility. You have the right to own one, everyone else has the right to not be shot by it. There’s a balance.

        • I beg to differ with you as far as your underwear. You could strangle someone you with it therefore ending someones life. Guns nor ammo kill people the person behind the gun does. Just like your underwear cant kill someone untill you use it as a weapon to end their life

          • That is an asinine argument, but for arguments sake we will edit my original comment to say that I can’t go into a movie theater and kill a couple dozen people with my underwear.

            Far fewer people have been killed with underwear or a bow or a t-shirt cannon than with a gun. Guns ARE more dangerous for a simple reason: it’s super easy to kill someone with a gun.

            If a person is contemplating murder, there is a lot shorter distance of sadism that has to be travelled than compared to, say, strangling someone to death with a pair of underwear. With a gun you point, click, and leave. Much less “up close and personal” than spending a minute or two choking the life out of someone. Guns do kill people, and they do it extremely easily.

            Not to mention it’s virtually impossible to accidentally kill someone with a pair of underwear, where accidental gun deaths and injuries happen several times every day in this country.

            Gun owners (which for the record I happen to own several) need to stop blindly following the ideology of the right as if it were some kind of friggin religion and admit that guns are dangerous, a big responsibility, and need to be regulated to protect the right of EVERYONE to not be shot. It’s ok to allow regulation. It’s not a slippery slope, and as long as lobby’s like the NRA exist there’s too much money behind gun ownership to ever lose it. Thank our f’ed up political system for at least getting one thing right.

      • that’s right get back in line or you want get your weekly loaf of bread nor your roll of toilet paper let a lone your govt.check…..ooooooo I hate that last line……..if WE do nothing now tomorrow it ‘ll be to late….everyone should carry a gun ..yes the death rate would go up yes the world would be in chaos…but only for a little while the criminals, thugs, troublemakers would eventuality be put down as it was through the 18/th century then all you would have left is the people that minded they’re own business……..now on that note leave JOHN alone

        • This is whats wrong with america, the uneducated think they know everything. And yes i do think more people should own guns. Texas has one of the countries lowest crime rates. Do u know why? Because they also have the highest gun amount of gun ownership.

    • No kidding ? Two of you on the same page at the same time ? Sarah , you and John are fools , and John’s a racist . There certainly is a reason to be upset . This si NOT looking out for each other , this is informing .

    • I have one question, is there a limit on how much reload ammo supplies you can buy? I can buy enough supplies to make over 5000 rounds and make them my self and will they check on me? Nope. So this silly crap they are doing is only because people now days are week and feeble. Crap like this didn’t happen 80 90 years ago. Want to know why, because everyone had a freaking gun. Thats why. When you take the ammo and guns from the honest person all your doing is making it easy’er for the bad guys to get what they want. I buy ammo in bulk all the time 1000 rounds at a time. So what unless i have a freaking machine-gun theres little i can do with 1000 round or even 150 rounds. People are un educated on how weapons work or even how to use them. I can kill someone just as easy with a bow then with a rifle. Wake the heck up.

      • US Soldier,
        I could not agree more with your post.
        Two thumbs up brother!

        I can kill someone with a bow, a knife, single shot rifle, baseball bat, vehicle, whatever, the list can go on and on.

        Point is, it doesn’t matter how much ammo one can accumulate, it’s the intent of the person behind the trigger, or bat, or bow, and so on. Having 10k rnds stored away does make one a criminal. This whole bulk ammo purchase thing is for the fear mongers to spread their propaganda to the sheeple.

        • Absolutely right. Purchasing that much ammo does not make you a criminal. Which is why this man wasn’t arrested.
          Questioning someone doesn’t make them a criminal either. The police can question someone with suspicious activity, and although purchasing 10,000 rounds isn’t illegal, it’s suspicious. Just cooperate and answer their questions and go on with your day. Or ask if you’re under investigation and kindly elect not to say anything, which you’re under your rights to do as well.

    • To those of you who feel this is not a problem, please pinch yourselves and wake the hell up. I buy ammo in bulk because it is cheaper and I tend to shoot a lot. So Mr. Titor, you truly are a jerk for what you said, especially the part where you say this man looks like he would hunt brown people. Sarah, whether his 4th Amendment rights were violated or not (they were; there was no reason to do a background check), ammunition is legal and the government has no right to limit how much you can buy. BTW, I am law enforcement. I worked a trial in the Bronx where a man killed 87 people…with a gallon of gasoline.

    • Sarah: you and John and MegaKarl all three seem like delusional far left wing nuts to me, based on your approval of this type illegal search and harassmant of this guy? he did nothing wrong, did NOt make a large purchase of ammo, even IF he had its not illegal, so long as you don’t have a criminal, felony record, his record is crystal clean as stated by the S/P whom called and violated his right to go about his business and be secure within his own home? many, many people for your info make huge ammo purchases for their own reasons, thank god they don’t have to give anyone a reason as to whay they want it? likely they are stocking up for the day people like you all figure out a way to make owning it illegal as they have already done in California? we need go no further than Calif. to see what an over-zealos govt. can and will do to honest, law abiding citizens rights to buy, own weapons/ammo of their choice which they have nothing illegal in mind of using them for except collecting, using at the range, or hunting with? time is now we all need to fight back against this tyrany, start by voting out Obama in Nov. and all the rest of the liberal kooks in office, from street sweeper to president?

      • because my previous post had links it needed to be approved by a moderator, and because the links struck a big blow to the Extremist right argument being made here it’s still not been approved. here’s the non-link part

        Probable cause is not required to do a basic criminal history. Most states publish criminal history on the internet because your criminal history is public record unless sealed or expunged. All you need is a person’s name, and sometimes their Date of Birth and you can look up their criminal history in virtually every state right now. For free. FBI background checks typically require consent or probable cause for local LE, but if the FBI, US Marshalls, ATF, some state police and even some sheriffs are performing the check, probable cause isn’t always needed because it is their responsibility to maintain the records. The records themselves are the property of the FBI, much like you have to pay to get your medical records from a hospital because the records themselves belong to the hospital.

        But I can look up your criminal history right now if I know your full name and the state you live in. Google your state and “criminal history” and the links will pop up from your state legislature.

        Also, have you even ever been to California? I live in Nevada and rarely notice when I cross the border into cali other than it’s a lot nicer, the roads are clear, the hunting is better and there are plenty of places to buy guns.

        Good luck with that election though. Republicans are systematically alienating a huge part of their voting base, myself included, by appealing to the extremist tea baggers that bend the constitution and the words of the founding fathers to suit their own purposes and ignore the parts that don’t. I’m not a huge Obama fan, but I do hope the Democrats decimate the republicans so they can get themselves back on the right track for 2016.

  3. It all depends on the person really as to whats a large amount. If they would control freaking inflation people wouldn’t have to shop and buy larger quantities to get a deal.

    Case in point. DHS and the rest are total tards.
    You go to the gun range, and buy 10 targets. In the next two and a half hrs you fire 30 rounds into each target. You just shot 300 rounds or 6 boxes.
    And you go to the gun range 4 days per month. (or the gravel pit or your own property. none of anybody’s dam business really. I happen to like the electric motor)

    How much ammunition do your need for 1 month?

    (notice I didnt add two trains at different speeds. This is so even house apes can follow)

    How Much? 1,200 rounds per month.

    How much per year? 14,400 rounds.

    And when does the gun store give you a price break? At 1,000 and 5,000 rounds.

    So for a month of shooting your forced to buy 2,000 rounds or you get screwed on the other 4 boxes to get your 1,200.

    Feel free to share some common sense with anyone who has a question about ammo.

  4. Sarah and John need to get their heads out of their rear end. Sarah its like this you go to the store and buy four bottles of childrens tylenol next thing you know DHS (social services) knocks on your door and wants to know why your giving your kids so much medicine, same principle as buying ammo its none of their dam business unless you are breaking the law.

    • They do that now with sudafed or anything with pseudoephedrine because it’s used to make meth. And I don’t have issue with that. Buying 50 boxes of sudafed is about as practical as purchasing 10,000 rounds at once. It’s not wrong, but it does raise suspicion. What are you possibly going to do with all of that at once?

      • Megakarl. What is so impractical about buying 10,000 rounds of ammo? Some of us here go thru more than that training and competition shooting. Who gave you or anyone else the authority to decide how much is impractical?

      • Megakarl. 10,000 rounds impractical? Some of us will go thru 10,000 rounds for training and competition shooting and you think its impractical? It can be cheaper buying in bulk just like needing to buy bulk toilet paper after listening to your crap. Who gave you or anyone else the right to make the decision on how many rounds someone should buy?

        • There is one reason to go to the range: to improve your skills. If you’re truly concentrating on skills, form, trigger pull etc then there is no way you are maintaining this form after even 1000 rounds. That would be akin to you going to the driving range and getting 50 baskets of balls to hit all in one day. Eventually you’re getting fatigued, form is starting to fall apart, and you’re paying less attention to HOW you’re shooting and you’re just shooting to hear things go bang. So I’m sorry, 10,000 rounds is impractical and excessive. You’re allowed to buy it, sure. But myself and the police are allowed to ask questions about it when you do.

  5. Wait!!!
    Think I’d go back to that store??
    They bent over and reported the purchase. I’d fault the store LONG before getting a phone call.

    • THANK YOU. That’s the problem, not the phone call. If I’m a cop and I get a call from a gun shop saying they’re worried about how much ammo I’ve purchased, of COURSE I’m going to look into it. Shame on the store owner, he’s the one at fault.

      • Mega, you are right, if someone buys alot of ammo the gunstore is obligated to report it. I’ve recently purchased a few thousand rounds of different ammo, but all my my weapons are registered so they already know what I own.(I’ve never been called either,maybe they think I’m a thug here in CA):)

  6. I think we have both sides of the coin at play. First of all, I can understand this gentleman’s aggravation with the phone call and suspicion by law enforcement, but in this day and time I feel more secure because of it. I am concerned about the government’s increasing involvement in our lives but how are we made aware of suspicious activity? In my 70 years the safety of our family and ourselves has continuously declined especially in the last 30 years. I support our gun rights and will vote at every opportunity to support this right and our constitution that guarantees it.

    • I think the gun store would have the common sense to know that buying 1,000 rounds (or however much) isn’t a large purchase.
      Now, if they know the guy as a regular plinker & he suddenly wants to order 20,000 rounds (a mere drop in the bucket compared to what gov’t agencies are getting this year), I’d ask him what’s up.
      And if I were the cop getting a report that someone bought 1,000 rounds, the only thing I’d be questioning is why he’s wasting all that money buying at the range when he could order from any number of online retailers & get it a lot cheaper. (And probably better quality.)

  7. “Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” Benjamin Franklin

  8. OK lets look at the issue. Has any mass murderer ever fired more than 150 rounds? I doubt it. So why does anyone need to know if any amount is purchased? The answer is they dont need to know.

    You know who scares the crap out of me? The people that buy a gun and a bunch of ammo and never go to the range or take a safety class. They buy it because of some stupid advice, or supplies list on the internet and never even learn how to use it. Those people are freakin dangerous.

    Please…If your one of those people have someone remove the bolt or the firing pin for you until you take the safety class and have some range experience. Seriously.

  9. So has anyone contacted DHS to find out why they purchased 400 million rounds of .40 caliber hollow point ammo? Now that sounds like something the police should check into but not a private citizen who hasn’t done anything wrong and purchased the ammo legally.

    • I think you bring up a really good point that is rarely talked about. Not a single mass shooting would have been prevented by limiting the amount of ammo a person can purchase.

      In every single media hyped mass shootings, the actual number of shots fired has never exceeded 150 rounds. Are we going to require anyone who buys over 100 rounds to be visited by police officials? Because if that’s the case there will be millions of people getting a visit every week.

  10. Do you really want to know what happens when there are no guns? Really?

    Guess what? There are just as many mass murder sprees.

    Google chinese axe murderer

    (b*tch slap of gov completed)

        • jesse…the Britain parliament ban gun ownership a few years ago the police force has been waging battle against the thugs and criminals ever since only the bad guys have gun now they rule no one can defend them selves the thugs buy gun on the black market and are better armed than the police and the law enforcement can control it ….read up on it I researched it a year or so ago…it all out there you just gotta find the info…

          • Sorry but you are wrong handguns are banned here but rifles, carbines etc and shotguns are not. Semi autos are allowed in .22 only. You do need a license though or a shotgun certificate. There is also a section 5 firearms license with which you can own just about anything, though there are only a few of us that hold one. One thing is certain though if you attempted to buy a couple of thousand rounds of ammo you would get a call from the police! As many have stated although handguns were banned in 1997 handgun crime increases pretty much every year. Though our gun crime is nowhere near yours yet but hey give the criminal sometime they are trying as hard as they can!!!! You can’t uninvent the wheel. Guns exist banning them merely ensure that people who have no intention of obeying the law will be the only ones with them. Oh and for the record I too think John is an idiot. Your constitution and bill of rights is the usa’s most precious possession. Don’t let a bunch of self serving politicians selling empty promises take them away.

    • Not just as many. They still exist but nowhere near the quantity as the US. We like killing each other a lot.

      That’s not to say banning guns would fix that, but it’s not a good argument to use. Gun control proponents will have a field day.

      The better argument is that the evidence is inconclusive. For every gun-control US city with a high murder rate, there is another concealed carry US city that also has one almost as high (Chicago vs New Orleans).

      The real argument is that guns have no discernible effect on crime. The statistics as a whole show no real correlation, so lets stop arguing a moot point.

  11. So who’s calling out Social Security, National Weather Service and all the others for the large amounts of hollowpoints they are buying up? They say it’s for their agents for practice… Who uses hollowpoints for practice?

      • the weather service I’m not sure about but the social security office I understand when they stop handing out welfare checks there’s going to be a lot of angry people I wouldn’t want to be in that bldg. with out a gun an lots of ammo.neither……

  12. With all the recent random shootings, I’m not surprised, but his rights were not violated, the police called to do a check up and no warrants were served, he wasn’t searched. You get checked on when you get pulled over for speeding. And really the store owner would of had to call it in as something suspicious which means he probably said something stupid, because you don’t need to have a permit to buy ammo.

    • Just another sheeple/kool-aid drinker. What part of “he didn’t do anything wrong” that yo are having trouble understanding. So based on what you say then a police officer has a right to just randomly stop you just to make sure you are not doing anything wrong or that you might be thinking of doing something wrong so he just needs to check you and you car to make sure that everything is alright. Wake up before all of your rights are gone. Geez what is our country coming too? I have to agree with an above poster who siad he is more worried about people like you than the fisherman who bought the ammo. You really don’t deserve any of the rights you have lost. In fact instead of waking up maybe you just need to stay asleep.

    • “All the recent random shootings”?? You mean all two of them? Yeah, lets call out the Gestapo, the whole country has gone crazy!

    • And those shootings (New York City, Batman, Virginia Tech, the Sikh temple in WI…) were not random. They were well planned.
      Well, other than the 8 innocent people shot by police. Those were collateral damage by officers who don’t train enough.
      They need to be required to participate in IPSC or IDPA at least once a month.

      • i live in texas an have a cc permit an have had it since they became available,what i am saying is concerning the 8 people the cops shot accidently or from lack of training but herein texas you are responseable where the bullet goes,if yoy injure anyone behind your intended target you are respnisible.

  13. when a person buyes a lot of amo and he did something bad then you would say why didn`t the law do something . . we don`t know why he was buying so much ammo . i as a citizen i would want the athourties to check on this person . he is angrey becouse they are checked on hem yes i am glad they did he knew what he was buying it for and they didn`t know his record was clean now they know they didn`r arest hem . i have ben checked for things i didn`t do and am proud they did . i know i wasn`t doing wrong but they didn`t . how else are you going to foind out .

    • No, Sage, no one here would say that. Well, except the two or three here who are comfortable with invasion of privacy, and nixing the 4th Amendment. I am surprised that such weak willed and weak minded types are reading a survivalist website. Maybe you guys are trolls, and I am taking the bait.

      His rights were violated. At the very least he was harassed for conducting personal, legal business. Technically, his 2nd Amendment rights were also infringed upon.

      What was the stupid phone call going to do anyway? If the dude was going to commit a crime, I guess he would have told the cops all the details.

      What is your definition of “a lot.” of ammunition. Surely different than mine. And still, there is no law or even made-up regulation that requires my ammo purchase to be monitored, or questioned.

      Where do you draw the line? Should we get harassed if we buy a certain amount of gasoline or knives or baseball bats or shovels, duct tape and rope? Or should it just be stuff related to guns?

      All you people, with this notion that claims if you arent doing anything wrong it is OK for the State/LE to question and monitor your every move, really need to re-think what it means to be an American.

    • As a citizen you would want the authorities to check on this person? Why??? Do you really think it is worth the resources and time for LE to check on every single person in the US who buys more than a few boxes of ammo? Maybe the State should open a Thought Police Bureau.

      You seem to want to live inside some sort of bubble. Again, re-evaluate yourself and really think and decide if you have the character to be an American. You sound like you would be more comfortable in the UK, or Russia, or China, or someplace else where people prefer some “authority” constantly watching over and deciding for them.

    • “i have ben checked for things i didn`t do and am proud they did . i know i wasn`t doing wrong but they didn`t . how else are you going to foind out”

      You’re actually _proud_ that you’ve had your constitutionally-protected rights infringed by government agents?
      The mind boggles.
      How did you find this page & what are you doing here?
      Please, go back to your middle-school homework. You need work on your English.
      Also take a gander at your Social Studies / American History, with a side of law.

      The police can’t randomly “check someone out” because they want to. They can’t stop someone on the street & demand ID on a whim.
      Police must have reasonable articulable suspicion (RAS) of a crime before interfering in the life of a citizen.
      What is the RAS of a crime that allowed police to check out this guy? Buying ammo isn’t a crime, otherwise the gun store wouldn’t let people do it. They’d lose their license.

  14. i dont think as a citizen i want the govt or policedoing anything any more they need to give everything back to the people and leave the country when we make our stand theyll have to or be incarcerated indefinatly.

  15. i’ve read or glanced over most all the comments up to my own… interesting how the pendulum swings from it’s ok to it’s ok depending on his intentions to not on your life… first off, it’s NOBODY’S BUSINESS WHAT AND /OR HOW MUCH OF ANYTHING I PURCHASE !!! and that includes both the store owner and the leos… next, who gave ANY OF YOU OR THE LEO’s THE RIGHT TO DECIDE MY INTENTIONS OR EVEN QUESTION THEM..??? this borders on “thought policing” which has been tested already on several occasions recently, this being the latest example… no, any and all of “you”(collective society, regardless of employment and profession) can butt the h3ll out of ALL OF MY BUSINESS UNTIL i trangress the codified statutes which govern our society… how dare anyone of “you” even think to determine what my motives might be for anything i do or to set me down for a “beer summit” to determine just why i’ve done what i’ve done… “you” can go …… n/m, belay that for now…. this guy should sue the store owner and so should every other person who gets treated this way…

    • Well Said, sir Prepping Preacher!

      @Sarah – so if the police are polite, they can do anything? Let’s say that you buy extra contraceptives one month and the local pharmacists/clerk knows you’re in any relationship so they decide to notify the local authorities because of the threat of STDs. The authorities contact you about your sexual habits, past partners, overall heath, medical records (which they have already checked) just to make sure that “you are ok”. Would you be agreeable to this?

      @John Titor – come off it, you are clearly paid by the Tides Foundation (Soros) for your positing opinions. “shooting brown people for sport” is not the sort of phrase one bandies about in any conversation unless trying to make a very direct political point. Go post on huffingtonposts’s website, they miss you.

      Government has zero business in my or your personal affairs unless we break a penal statute or commit a crime. Of course, changing the laws to be so grey and far-reaching that anything can be interpreted as “suspicious or threatening” is already being done in many states. Big Sis made sure to put military veterans, Christians, private gun owners, any conservative, and preppers (of every level) on the terror watch list so virtually anyone is open to scrutiny now.

      It won’t matter if they outlaw every gone in this country (like UK, China, Russia, Australia, Germany (WWII), Japan, Singapore) because people will just keep on clubbing/stabbing/beating each other to death. Crimes of murder existed LONG before firearms, and why governments think that taking guns away will have any affect is ludicrous. The “gun free” countries have just as much crime as everyone else…more in a few cases.

      If they want to ban all guns, fine…make all militaries destroy theirs as well and all countries sign no gun legislation and have it verified (not by the UN). Make a gun-free Earth (for those hopeless anti-gunners out there). Of course, this won’t happen because government’s new goal is to “control” the population to extort money/services and you can’t do that easily with armed resistance. Controlling un-armed citizens is MUCH easier when the govt is the only one who has guns.

      There are far more people killed every year in car crashes in the US than in gun related violence. Do we start banning cars or contacting those who purchase more than the “normal” amount of fuel in a month? Once it starts (it already has) it won’t stop until we hit the wall of communism or an outright dictatorship.

      I will be alert to watch for new executive orders dealing with and special taxes on firearms or ammunition in the coming months. They’re working on it every day so be watchful.

      Best of luck to you all

      • What I’ve gathered from this thread is that the Patriot Act should be repealed and following a terrorist attack, domestic or foreign, no measures should be taken to prevent one from happening again. Excuse me while I go make myself a tinfoil hat. There is a difference between prepping intelligently and being a lunatic and this thread has made that distinction very clear. Originally I thought I could learn some valuable information that would aide my desire to prepare for disasters, I now know that it is merely a gathering of whackjob conspiracy theorists.

        • @Scott: I truly hope that you are correct. I would be very happy to believe that this is all just a big waste of time because nothing bad will happen and the government can be trusted blindly.

  16. I’m a prepper and I don’t know how much ammo I should have on hand in case something happens with this world. could someone tell me about how much you should store up on just in case? I have 3000 rounds of 9mm and 4000 of 40 cals, but how much is enough? With the prices going sky high its time to buy before it goes any higher. Buy it now before it gets too high, thats what john might have been doing too before he got busted by by big brother for nothing wrong! Thats what I’m doing,before the prices get too high to afford!

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